[Lilug] On-topic to last night's meeting

Wed Apr 11 06:56:34 PDT 2018

I take issue with your characterization of Linux and BSD as "pirated"
software as this has been litigated (to death) by patent trolls who create
NOTHING and waste tons of other people's time and money trying to make
money off of other people's work.  Neither Linux nor BSD can properly be
called "pirated" software in any sense, its just incorrect and quite like
the FUD I recognize as typical of Microsoft and SCO.  They are "unix-like"
operating systems, they do not use unix code.  In fact, if anyone pirated
things, its Microsoft who were using BSD TCP/IP stack right up until
sometime before Win7?  They did comply and put the disclaimer in there that
the code was from BSD however.

Another point I'd like to make is that you can place any disclaimer you
wish on anything you sell, but what matters is whether that claim will hold
up in court.  This typically depends on which state you are in and whether
you show "gross negligence" in your application.  Speaking as someone who
has been involved in the making of actual physical products for 25 years
(some with Linux), I can confirm that lawyers will use any tactic possible
to pin a failure on the weakest link in the chain (provided that link also
has enough money to be a worthwhile target - there is a calculus there), so
you certainly would be wise to evaluate the tools you use carefully, and
document that things are tested against specifications with third party
agencies.  If Linux should not be used in actual real world application
you've got some serious problems. You would need to recall billions of
phones, almost every super computer, not to mention high energy physics
colliders, all Amazon and Google server farms, and soon you won't be able
to buy a darn thing (iOT) without some kind of Linux in it.

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 8:56 AM, Robert Wilkens <rob.wilkens at ieee.org>
wrote:

> Sorry to keep replying to myself, but here’s why software guys (at least
> not with an engineering background) shouldn’t be involved in designing
> ‘security’ into systems..
>
>
>
> Back in 2001, I was working on a U.S. Army project with people from
> intelligence agencies from various other governments (such as the Mossat,
> and MI-Whatever that british agency) .. And I was only there less than two
> months..  And this was JUST BEFORE 9/11 by a matter of 3-4 months.. And I
> managed to break through all this incredible software security (completely
> by accident, not knowing it was there), when one of those foreign agents
> casually asked me to reinstall windows for them..   So, despite layers and
> layers of security controls in the system, this military security as it was
> some 17 years ago (I’m disclosing this now, hoping they learned their
> lesson), all it took to bypass this wonderful security the military had was
> to reinstall windows from the commercial install disk over-the-counter.
>
>
>
> I know Linus Torvalds’ was pissed when Spectre and Meltdown were
> ‘revealed’ to the public, but sometimes backdoors are put into systems ON
> PURPOSE, whether or not that is smart.  Sometimes it’s a government
> insisting on a back-way-in, and other times it’s an individual who thinks
> they’re smart, and sometimes it’s actually just an accident, and going back
> in time to figure out which is virtually impossible (even if it were
> possible, the factors involved in decision making are often difficult to
> determine).
>
>
>
> -Rob
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *Robert Wilkens <rob.wilkens at ieee.org>
> *Sent: *Wednesday, April 11, 2018 7:59 AM
>
> *To: *LILUG Mailing List <lilug at lists.lilug.org>
> *Subject: *RE: [Lilug] On-topic to last night's meeting
>
>
>
> ON a side note, MacOS is built on BSD which is also an ‘educational’
> (pirated) operating system, BSD=University of California at Berkeley I
> believe.. As such, pirating MacOS should be considered free to do, since
> they didn’t have a problem with that, and I wouldn’t dare use a Mac in
> industry running BSD.
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *Robert Wilkens <rob.wilkens at ieee.org>
> *Sent: *Wednesday, April 11, 2018 7:41 AM
> *To: *LILUG Mailing List <lilug at lists.lilug.org>
> *Subject: *RE: [Lilug] On-topic to last night's meeting
>
>
>
> Again, pardon typos, my eyeglasses were lost, it’ll probably be a week or
> two until replacements arrive
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *Robert Wilkens <rob.wilkens at ieee.org>
> *Sent: *Wednesday, April 11, 2018 7:39 AM
> *To: *LILUG Mailing List <lilug at lists.lilug.org>
> *Subject: *RE: [Lilug] On-topic to last night's meeting
>
>
>
> And this, again, is why  Linux should never ever be used in industy
> legally.  It’s educational, it’s open source clone of real UNIX which
> professional like myself have contributed to.. However, Linux ultimately is
> pirated software, which is valid for educational use, scientific
> experimentation and learning, but never in practice should it ever be used.
>
>
>
> -Rob
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *Robert Wilkens <rob.wilkens at ieee.org>
> *Sent: *Wednesday, April 11, 2018 7:05 AM
> *To: *LILUG Mailing List <lilug at lists.lilug.org>
> *Subject: *RE: [Lilug] On-topic to last night's meeting
>
>
>
> I saw a five line or so comment at the top of some source code disclaiming
> all warranties, expressed or implied, including fitness for a particular
> purpose, etc. etc.
>
>
>
> From my understanding this is what they consider a “blanket disclaimer”
>
>
>
> What separates scientists (people who research) from Engineers (people who
> practice) is that the practitioners HAVE to have responsibility for their
> products, like I said there are a lot of products today that are
> potentially deadly that rely on software, and if we’re talking murder or
> manslaughter, we CAN NOT just say “well, I said I wasn’t responsible,
> therefore I am not”.
>
>
>
> By the way, if any ‘software engineers’ in new York aren’t aware, you
> cannot legally call yourself an engineer in new York state without approval
> from NCEES (I believe it is called), this is a certification process for
> licensing, the term engineer is protected in new york state.  NCEES
> incidentally has a mailing address in the same town that I want to college.
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *iN8sWoRld.net <nate at in8sworld.net>
> *Sent: *Wednesday, April 11, 2018 7:01 AM
> *To: *LILUG Mailing List <lilug at lists.lilug.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [Lilug] On-topic to last night's meeting
>
>
>
> As this interested me I took a quick look on github and all I can find is
> that Atom is released under the MIT license.
>
> Is this the "waiver" to which you refer?  The MIT license doesn't imply
> any warranty at all and doesn't require users sign any waiver that I'm
> aware.
>
> https://github.com/atom/atom/blob/master/LICENSE.md
>
> Nate
>
>
>
> Not sent from Windows
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 6:01 AM, Robert Wilkens <rob.wilkens at ieee.org>
> wrote:
>
> I’ve noticed that there was a ‘blanket disclaimer’ on the ATOM source code
> shown.  I’ve heard these blanket disclaimers might start becoming invalid
> or disallowed as computers are more and more involved in tasks that involve
> life and death (such as self driving cars).  Clearly someone has to be
> responsible.   Does anyone here have opinions on the elimination of the
> legality of discarding all liabilities with a simple statement making that
> claim?
>
>
>
> Rob
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
> --
>
> iN8sWoRLd
> https://www.in8sworld.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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-- 
iN8sWoRLd
https://www.in8sworld.net
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