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--></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Sorry to keep replying to myself, but here’s why software guys (at least not with an engineering background) shouldn’t be involved in designing ‘security’ into systems..</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Back in 2001, I was working on a U.S. Army project with people from intelligence agencies from various other governments (such as the Mossat, and MI-Whatever that british agency) .. And I was only there less than two months.. And this was JUST BEFORE 9/11 by a matter of 3-4 months.. And I managed to break through all this incredible software security (completely by accident, not knowing it was there), when one of those foreign agents casually asked me to reinstall windows for them.. So, despite layers and layers of security controls in the system, this military security as it was some 17 years ago (I’m disclosing this now, hoping they learned their lesson), all it took to bypass this wonderful security the military had was to reinstall windows from the commercial install disk over-the-counter.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I know Linus Torvalds’ was pissed when Spectre and Meltdown were ‘revealed’ to the public, but sometimes backdoors are put into systems ON PURPOSE, whether or not that is smart. Sometimes it’s a government insisting on a back-way-in, and other times it’s an individual who thinks they’re smart, and sometimes it’s actually just an accident, and going back in time to figure out which is virtually impossible (even if it were possible, the factors involved in decision making are often difficult to determine).</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>-Rob</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Sent from <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986">Mail</a> for Windows 10</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:rob.wilkens@ieee.org">Robert Wilkens</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Wednesday, April 11, 2018 7:59 AM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:lilug@lists.lilug.org">LILUG Mailing List</a><br><b>Subject: </b>RE: [Lilug] On-topic to last night's meeting</p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>ON a side note, MacOS is built on BSD which is also an ‘educational’ (pirated) operating system, BSD=University of California at Berkeley I believe.. As such, pirating MacOS should be considered free to do, since they didn’t have a problem with that, and I wouldn’t dare use a Mac in industry running BSD.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Sent from <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986">Mail</a> for Windows 10<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:rob.wilkens@ieee.org">Robert Wilkens</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Wednesday, April 11, 2018 7:41 AM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:lilug@lists.lilug.org">LILUG Mailing List</a><br><b>Subject: </b>RE: [Lilug] On-topic to last night's meeting<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Again, pardon typos, my eyeglasses were lost, it’ll probably be a week or two until replacements arrive<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Sent from <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986">Mail</a> for Windows 10<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:rob.wilkens@ieee.org">Robert Wilkens</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Wednesday, April 11, 2018 7:39 AM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:lilug@lists.lilug.org">LILUG Mailing List</a><br><b>Subject: </b>RE: [Lilug] On-topic to last night's meeting<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>And this, again, is why Linux should never ever be used in industy legally. It’s educational, it’s open source clone of real UNIX which professional like myself have contributed to.. However, Linux ultimately is pirated software, which is valid for educational use, scientific experimentation and learning, but never in practice should it ever be used.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>-Rob<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Sent from <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986">Mail</a> for Windows 10<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:rob.wilkens@ieee.org">Robert Wilkens</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Wednesday, April 11, 2018 7:05 AM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:lilug@lists.lilug.org">LILUG Mailing List</a><br><b>Subject: </b>RE: [Lilug] On-topic to last night's meeting<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I saw a five line or so comment at the top of some source code disclaiming all warranties, expressed or implied, including fitness for a particular purpose, etc. etc.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>From my understanding this is what they consider a “blanket disclaimer”<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>What separates scientists (people who research) from Engineers (people who practice) is that the practitioners HAVE to have responsibility for their products, like I said there are a lot of products today that are potentially deadly that rely on software, and if we’re talking murder or manslaughter, we CAN NOT just say “well, I said I wasn’t responsible, therefore I am not”. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>By the way, if any ‘software engineers’ in new York aren’t aware, you cannot legally call yourself an engineer in new York state without approval from NCEES (I believe it is called), this is a certification process for licensing, the term engineer is protected in new york state. NCEES incidentally has a mailing address in the same town that I want to college.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Sent from <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986">Mail</a> for Windows 10<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:nate@in8sworld.net">iN8sWoRld.net</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Wednesday, April 11, 2018 7:01 AM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:lilug@lists.lilug.org">LILUG Mailing List</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lilug] On-topic to last night's meeting<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>As this interested me I took a quick look on github and all I can find is that Atom is released under the MIT license.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Is this the "waiver" to which you refer? The MIT license doesn't imply any warranty at all and doesn't require users sign any waiver that I'm aware.<br><br><a href="https://github.com/atom/atom/blob/master/LICENSE.md">https://github.com/atom/atom/blob/master/LICENSE.md</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Nate<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>Not sent from Windows<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 6:01 AM, Robert Wilkens <<a href="mailto:rob.wilkens@ieee.org" target="_blank">rob.wilkens@ieee.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:19.2pt'>I’ve noticed that there was a ‘blanket disclaimer’ on the ATOM source code shown. I’ve heard these blanket disclaimers might start becoming invalid or disallowed as computers are more and more involved in tasks that involve life and death (such as self driving cars). Clearly someone has to be responsible. Does anyone here have opinions on the elimination of the legality of discarding all liabilities with a simple statement making that claim?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:19.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:19.2pt'>Rob<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:19.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:19.2pt'>Sent from <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986" target="_blank">Mail</a> for Windows 10<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:19.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:19.2pt'><br>_______________________________________________<br>Lilug mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Lilug@lists.lilug.org">Lilug@lists.lilug.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.lilug.org/listinfo.cgi/lilug-lilug.org" target="_blank">http://lists.lilug.org/listinfo.cgi/lilug-lilug.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br clear=all><br>-- <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>iN8sWoRLd<br><a href="https://www.in8sworld.net" target="_blank">https://www.in8sworld.net</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>